Balancing Business and Family Life - Larry Hagner

Oct 23, 2026 · 00:53:08

men who are entrepreneurs have the best of intentions to build an empire to provide for their family, while usually all the while they're the ones who are starving the most.

Larry, welcome to the podcast. Really great to have you today.

Thank you for having me. This is going to be a lot of fun, I can tell.

Yeah. All right. Well, I wanted to start by talking about something that you said. You've said the definition of hell is being on your deathbed and meeting the man you could have become. And most founders I know are busy building the company they could become while their family quietly pays the bill and suffers a little bit. So who is the man you were afraid of meeting?

Myself, for sure.

Yeah. Tell us more about that.

Yeah. You know, I, I wouldn't say, you know, when I started The Dad Edge, which was originally The Good Dad Project back in 2012,

right?

I mean, first of all, I never did it for a following or anything like that. In fact, I don't know how many people know this, but the Good Dad Project was actually me. I was the project. And I started a Facebook page and it was probably on one of the darkest evenings of my life as a parent. And I just started looking at my life and in my book, The Pursuit of Legendary Fatherhood, it's divided up into 4 parts and one is the drift. The next is husband, the next is father, and the next is leader. And I was definitely in the drift. And the drift is like, I think Napoleon Hill talks about it, which I think that's where I got that quote from. You know, I got to give credit where credit is due. But, you know, I was just in that wash, rinse, repeat cycle, you know, where, you know, every day felt like Groundhog Day. I didn't really love my job necessarily. You know, 82% of men go to a job that they dislike or despise to some degree. So 8 out of 10 men go to a job that they don't like. On top of it, I just really didn't know what I was doing as a husband or a father. I didn't know. At the time, I had 2 boys, 4 and 6, and I just— nothing terrible was happening, but it wasn't good either. So, you know, I wasn't like getting drunk and beating my kids or anything like that. My marriage was lackluster. I would say like on a scale of 1 to 10, it was probably a 4 or 5 on a good day. And, uh, I just did not know what to do. And I just got to a point where I just started asking really different questions, you know, just myself, my own experience. And, you know, the questions really were, could I learn this? Could I, could I learn how to be like, are there skills that are actually associated with being a husband and father? And I really started thinking about that. And I started thinking about my own life. And I got a 4-year degree in sports medicine with a minor in nutrition, so I can I can tell you anything about the body and fitness and, you know, and nutrition. I, at the time I was doing martial arts for about a decade and really loved that too. And, you know, I just started looking at those elements of my life and just other elements. I'm like, you know, gosh, it takes like, at the time, one of my very good friends was going through the police academy and it's like 900 hours from cadet to officer. You know, it takes over 600 hours to be a a firefighter. And, uh, at the time I was in med device sales and I was like, look at the surgeons I work with. Some of them have been in school for 10 to 12 years before they can even really open somebody up on their own. And when we walk down the aisle and we say, I do, it's like, hey, best of luck, you'll figure it out.

Mm-hmm.

You know? And it's like, and we also kind of come, a lot of us come from good backgrounds and a lot of us come from backgrounds that are really lackluster as far as like our childhood and our blueprint. And, you know, I think there's the one thing I want to commend a lot of men, and I was, I was the same. I had this deep desire to be a great dad. In fact, I made 3 promises to myself when I got married back in 2003, and that was, I'm going to be a, I'm going to be a good husband, you know, so I only want to be married once. I'm going to be a good husband. I'm going to be a good dad, and I'm never going to hit my kids out of anger. And in that first 10 years, I broke all 3 of those promises, and it wasn't for a lack of desire. You know what I mean? It was actually just the— what I found was at the time I was reading a book called The Matheny Manifesto, and it was all about Mike Matheny, who was the catcher for the St. Louis Cardinals. And he was the youngest— I think he still might be the youngest MLB manager in history. There might be a few guys that might have come up since then, but at the time he was taking over for Tony La Russa, who who is like a legend. I think he's in the MLB Hall of Fame. And so he's learning from like this legend, right? He played for Tony and when it was announced that he was going to take over the Cardinals the next season, he was really nervous about it. And he talks about it in his book. He was like, how in the world am I going to fill the shoes of Tony La Russa? So he goes into Tony's office and this is the point I'm going to make. He goes into Tony's office and he has a pen and paper And he's like, all right, Tony, like, I'm ready. Like, my tank is empty. I'm ready to be filled with all of the lessons that you've ever learned about being a great manager, and I'm ready to go. And he's like, what's my first lesson? And Tony, like, took off his glasses and he looked at Mike and he just smiled and he said, okay. He goes, here's your first lesson. Learn something new every day. And Mike was like, okay, learn something new every day. He's like, okay, got it. What's next? He goes, That's your first lesson. That's your last lesson, Mike. That's it. Just go out and learn something new every day. And so that's really what I did. And that's still, you know, 14 years later, that's still what I'm doing. You know, it's, it's, uh, I'm not the guru. I'm, I, yes, I've learned a lot of things. I teach a lot of things, but man, you know, this whole evolution of fatherhood and being married, it is exactly that. It's an evolution. And as much as we have our arms wrapped around one chapter in this or a season in this, it's going to change. And you always got to be learning. But, you know, yeah, the definition of hell for me was I was that stagnant, uncomfortable, comfortable man, and things were not operating ideally. And, but I desperately wanted to, and I just went on this journey of learning.

So it sounds like things weren't necessarily bad, right? Like, it doesn't sound like it was dysfunctional or that you were having depression or anxiety, but it wasn't optimal. Is that a fair assessment?

That's totally fair.

Yeah. Yeah. So would you say your wife or kids noticed it as well, or was it just something you were dealing with internally yourself?

No, it was— my wife definitely noticed it.

She did. Okay.

She was the first one. At the time, my kids were 6 and 4, so I don't really think they— they only knew what they knew. And like I said, I think the biggest thing I struggled with back then was patience. You know, that was like the first thing I started learning. I was like, how do I just become more patient? And one thing I've learned too is that Patience is the thing that happens to us externally. So we get challenges or obstacles or, you know, your kid's having a meltdown or whatever. Right. But we also lose patience with ourselves. So like this, there's this external challenge that's happening and then there's this internal thing that's happening within us. And so I really started diving into patience, but yes, my wife definitely noticed it, but I think she wasn't happy. You know, she wasn't fulfilled, but I think she was also like, well, it's Not horrible, but it could be better. But I mean, she also didn't know what she didn't know at the time. We've done a lot of learning together over the years.

Yeah. So you said you weren't really fulfilled, but you were somewhat comfortable too. But break that down because I think a lot of people get into that. They're like, hey, I'm comfortable. My needs are mostly met. Do I really want to go out on a limb? Do I really want to try harder because things are comfortable? And I don't want to ruin that discomfort, that comfort and get into discomfort. Seems to me anyway.

Yeah, you know, so let me break down some more stats for you that I think, and let's kind of really focus in on marriage because I think, you know, I've been coaching men in marriage now for over 10 years. And one thing I've noticed is that if you can get a man's marriage pointed in the right direction, if you can get that on point, the rest of his life actually starts to feel pretty darn good. So a man who's got his marriage on point is usually going to be a more patient father, he's going to be more productive in the workplace, he's going to be probably more physically and mentally and emotionally healthy if that relationship is healthy. But the stats don't lie. I think it was John Gottman that did this study, and he's been like the marriage pioneer for 40-plus years. He's a therapist and he has studied marriage, you know, for 4 decades. And the divorce rate's 50%, but the people we don't usually talk about are the couples that stay together. And one thing that he found was, is 2/3 of couples that stay together are either in what we call settled roommate syndrome, or they're completely and totally emotionally, physically, spiritually, intellectually disconnected. And they're just living underneath the same roof and they're just waiting for the kids to move out. And he found that the 2 reasons that those couples don't get married who are in that extreme are usually because it's too financially devastating or they have a perception they need to stay together for the kids. But if you really break down the numbers, a successful marriage, because he found that about 12% of people that walk down the aisle and say, I do, can actually find their relationship is working, it's fulfilling, it's everything they've ever wanted. It's awesome. But that's the same success rate of a Navy SEAL candidate going through BUD/S because it's a 90% failure rate. And I would say we were definitely in the roommate syndrome, you know, that's where, and that's where things can be comfortable, uncomfortable, you know, to answer your question. So, you know, I think there's this, like, so when 2/3 of couples who stay together either in roommate syndrome, they're not having the intimacy that they want, they have all these high-level logistical conversations. We're basically running family LLC together and we're co-parenting, but we're not necessarily broken enough to the point where we're going to be out of the marriage. And then there's, there's one-third of couples that stay together who are just totally disconnected. But, um, when you ask people, like, let's just say, like, most men, 70% of men report feeling lonely. Over 80% of men don't have a 3 AM friend. And usually the friends that we do surround ourselves with, we kind of attract what we, who we are and what's going on in our life. So a lot of guys will get in conversations with other men, maybe it's their college buddies or people they work with, and they're complaining about their marriage. And then the other guy was just like, well, dude, that's just, that's marriage, man. Like, you think you're going to be having sex after you've been together for 10 years? It's not going to happen. Like, and that's really unfortunate. So like, part of my mission too is I want to positively disrupt that perception of that's the norm because it doesn't have to be the norm. And when we identify it as the norm, I think that's when we get more comfortable But it's very uncomfortable at the same time. We just tack it up as like, well, this is marriage. So I think I answered your question there of how it can feel comfortable but also really uncomfortable.

Yeah, yeah, no, that was a, that was a good explanation. I like the stats with the, the SEALs and the, the BUD/S training and everything. And yeah, I think that, that roommate syndrome is a real thing. It's a, it's a, yeah, it's an uncomfortable, comfortable place to be. Yeah. So you were, I think you were 9 months old when your biological father left and you met him again when you were 12. So, so talk to us about that, that meeting and then how that relationship or that dynamic changed or impacted the father you became.

Yeah, I, so when I was 12 and I met my father after we parted ways, I'll share that story. It's, it's, it's really weird. It's like a pretty unique story. But I remember at 12 years old, I got off the phone with him after we were parting ways for the second time. And I said to myself, sitting on the edge of my bed, and it was a landline, you know, I think it was even like a rotary phone where it takes like 30 minutes to dial the number. But I just said, you know, when I'm a dad, I'm gonna do this different. I think I just said something like that to myself. It probably wasn't those words, but I'm like, when I'm a dad, I'm gonna be a good one. So yeah, my mom and bio dad got married young. They had me 4 years into the marriage. And then after that, like it was 9 months later after they had me, they got divorced. And my mom actually remarried when I was 5 and that guy adopted me and I actually have his adopted name. My, my last name, Hagner, is his name. And I was, you know, they, they were together for 5 years and the first year was really, really cool. Um, I called him dad right outta the gate. I thought he was my dad. I knew nothing about the birds and the bees. I thought moms just go out and find dads. That's what I thought happens. But when they got divorced when I was 10, and it was a horrific marriage, there was a lot of abuse, there was a lot of drinking, there was a lot of toxicity, and it was a bit of a crazy experience. I started asking questions like around the age of 10. I was like, hey, where did I come from? Like, I know this guy showed up when I was like 5, like where? And then my mom told me, I had no idea that she was actually married before. And, um, and so she told me, she's like, yeah, you, you have another dad. You know, here's the wedding album. This is what he looks like. This is his name. I knew his name was Larry Boyd. I was named after him. And I was like, where is he? And she's like, I don't know. I don't know if that was true or not. I don't know if she knew where he was at, but she told me she didn't know. So 2 years go by. I met him when I was 12, and here's how it happened. I went up to like our local rec center and I went to go play basketball with one of my very good friends. And still talk to him to this day, which is just wild. And when the clerk handed me and my friend my basketball to go into the court, he looks over my shoulder and he said, here comes Mrs. Boyd with the hockey payment. So there was this woman who was walking in and he identified her as Mrs. Boyd. And I, that name, it's like, it's not the most common name. And I said, did you say Mrs. Boyd? He said, yeah. And I said, what is she up here for? And I'm just I was a real curious kid, still am at 51 years old. And, uh, he goes, oh, her husband plays hockey up here. She's paying for the ice time. And I was like, what's her husband's name? And he said, Larry. And I was like, oh my God, that's my dad's name. So I went up to my buddy before we went into the court and I said, hey, we're going to wait here for a second. I think this lady coming in here is married to my dad. And she, he's like, wait, what? And so she makes the hockey payment. She's on her way out. I tap her on the shoulder and I'm like, hey. And, uh, she looks at me like, 12-year-old kid coming up to her randomly. And she's like, yeah, can I help you? And I said, yeah. I said, what's your name? And she just like looked at me like I had 3 heads. And she's like, my name's Lisa. Why? And I go, is your husband named Larry? And she said, yeah. And I go, and I just looked at her with this big smile. Like, I was like, I think you're married to my dad. And she just like looked at me like, you know, complete shock. But she, she knew exactly who I was. And she's like, oh my God. She goes, and she was so kind and she's like, oh my gosh, sweetheart, are you Larry? And I said, yes, I am. And she goes, yeah, sweetheart, sweetheart, I am married to your dad. Yes, I am. She's like, and without missing a beat, she goes, sweetheart, would you like to talk to him? And I was like, oh my gosh, are you serious? I would love to talk to my dad. So we walk around the corner of this payphone. She drops a quarter in and she's talking to my dad. She's like, hey, I'm up here at the rec center. I made the hockey payment. I just ran into your 12-year-old son. He'd like to talk to you. And just hands the phone over.

And she did.

Yeah, I know. She did. She did it very respectfully. She was a very loving person. And then I don't remember what the words were, but I just remember hearing his voice and he was like in utter shock. Right. And then I told him, I was like, I'd really like to meet you. Like, where do you live? And it turns out he only lived like 3 miles from us. Had no idea.

Wow.

Went home, told my mom that she wasn't too terribly happy, but a week later she, she acquiesced and agreed to that I could meet him. So I met him and we, I immediately when I saw him, like it was, it was wild, you know? I mean, like I remember seeing him like 100 yards away outside this restaurant and he was reading the newspaper waiting for me. And as soon as I walked up to him, I was like freaking nervous as all get out. I extended my hand and all he did was hug me. And he was like, I remember him saying, I've missed you so much. And I'm like, man, this is wild. But we spent the day together. For the next 6 months, we spent like every week together. He was remarried. I had a 2-year-old half-brother at the time. His wife was pregnant with their second boy. And, uh, it was awesome. Like he came to all my Little League games. We hung out. Like I spent time at their house, spent holidays with them. And then like around month 5 or so, like something just started to just shift and change. Like in our relationship, it just felt tension. Like I felt like I did something wrong.

Hmm.

And I remember I wasn't hearing from him as much and we weren't seeing each other as much. And I picked up the phone one day and I think I was just like, hey, did I do something wrong? Like, are, are we okay? Like, I don't hear from you as much. Like that kind of conversation. I don't even remember the words, but he basically said, hey, it's me. It's not you. Uh, we're, I, I don't know if I can do this anymore. And then he left again. And that dude, that spiraled me like big time. Like I, at the time I was in 7th grade getting ready to go into 8th grade. I failed the 8th grade, just kind of like gave up. Not because I wasn't smart enough, I just gave up. And, uh, had to do 8th grade twice. Um, started to kind of turn life around a little bit. My mom continued to date all these kind of crazy, just really toxic dudes. Went on to high school, uh, moved out when I was 17, 18, went away to college. Um, got my degree in, like I said, sports medicine nutrition. And I met my wife, um, in college, and then we got married 7 years, um, after we met. And then in 2005, I'll finish the story here. I was in med device sales and real successful, great career. Um, we were pregnant with our first son, had been married for 3 years, and I'm in this coffee shop and one of the women that I worked with, we were also good friends outside of work. So like her and her husband, me and my wife, we'd go out on double dates and we'd all hang out and it was fun. And so she knew this story and I'm sitting there having coffee with her and a couple other people and all of a sudden, this guy walks in and he just catches my eye and I knew exactly who he was. It was my father. I hadn't seen him since I was 12. And the woman who we were friends outside of work, she like looked at me, she's like, hey, are you okay? Like, you, you look like you've just seen a ghost. I'm like, yeah, I think I have. I was like, my dad just walked in here. And her first question, this is hilarious, she's like, which one? And I was like, my real dad. And she's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, the one you haven't seen since you were 12? I was like, yeah. She's like, oh my God, where is he? And I was like, He's right over there, like 50 feet away. And he was sitting at a table and by himself. And she was like, oh my God, what are you going to say? And I was like, I'm not going to say anything. I was like, that guy does not deserve my time. I will not. No. She's like, wait, wait, wait, you're, you're going to let your dad walk out of here and not say anything to him? I was like, yeah. I was like that. No, I don't want that guy in my life.

Hmm.

She didn't even say one more word. She just got up, walked over, sat at his table and started talking to him. And I was like, What is she doing? And then before I knew it, he had gotten up, came over and shook my hand and asked to sit down. And I was like, and I wasn't cold, but I wasn't nice.

Right.

And he is like, oh my gosh, like, how are you doing? Like, are you married? I'm like, yeah, I'm married. And he is like, do you have kids? I was like, we're pregnant with our first son. He's due in a few months. And then small talk. And he is like, we should get together. And I was like, and I think at the time there was no smartphones in 2005. So I took out a business card and I kind of like flicked it across the table, I think. And I was like, if you want to get in touch, you can call me if you want. Basically, I was like, I'm not calling you. 3 days go by, nothing. And then I got a really long email from him and he invited me to breakfast. And that breakfast has now turned into a 21-year relationship. Wow. And I'm still, yeah. So we talk, I have 2 younger half-brothers. He's still married to the same woman, has been for like 47 years. Very successful entrepreneur. And but yeah, we've got a relationship now.

Wow. And all because the woman you were there with just went up and decided to, to sit down and start talking to him. I mean, do you ever think of like what would have happened if that didn't happen? Like the things that would be going through your head and the questions you've had and that sort of thing?

Yeah, for sure. I know for a fact that, you know, life would not be the same. You know, I don't even know if I'd be doing the work that I'm doing right now. I'd probably still be miserable in med device sales and might probably be divorced, to be honest. Might have 2 kids instead of 4. You know, it's a— I don't think the life— my life would have been the same.

So, so why do you say that? What was the— I guess, what was the addition, or what did he bring over the course of that relationship that you think made your life better?

He brought a friendship.

Hmm.

To be honest, you know, a friendship. Um, when I need advice, he's pretty good about helping me and that kind of thing. But, um, I think it was more the experience because 6 years went by after that, you know, where I was, you know, he was part of my life and I was a dad, but, and the, the 6 years that I was a dad and married, that was, that was the heat of the drift. And the whole reason that actually Dad Edge even exists today is because I broke that third promise of never striking my children. Um, when I wrote my book, Pursuit of Legendary Fatherhood, a year ago, at the time I was going through a publisher and the CEO told me, hey, he's like, hey, I need a paragraph on the back of this book. So I wrote it and then I submitted it and he's like, you can't put this on the back of a book. I was like, well, it's going on the back of the book. And the, the first sentence is, um, 12 years ago I became the monster to, to pro— that I swore to protect my kids against.

Hmm.

So I had a really, really bad— this, this was in 2012. This was the night I started that Facebook page, I started asking different questions. I had a horrific day at work. I was in sales, lost my number one customer, my number one surgeon to a competitor, made up 60% of my revenue per month. I thought I was going to be fired. We were also getting ready to move. I had, and my wife was a stay-at-home mom, so I was incredibly stressed out. I was like, we're moving now. My income is going to be impacted for at least 12 to 18 months. I don't even know how I'm going to make up this gap. I might be fired. And we, I was packing up my kids' playroom and again, wasn't satisfied with life. It was lackluster. And my 4-year-old, who's now 18, came downstairs and wanted to play with his toys. And I just spent like 3 hours packing up their playroom and I left out some toys for him and I said, hey, don't get out anything in the boxes if you don't mind. I'm going to take a break. I'll be back in like 30 minutes, but you can play with these toys over here. And now that I've been a dad for 2 decades, I really realized how ridiculous that was to ask a 4-year-old. It's kind of like bringing somebody who's on a 10-day fast to their favorite restaurant and be like, Here, don't eat, but watch me eat. And I came downstairs and of course, what do you think happened? There were toys scattered everywhere. Everything that I've been working on, it was a total mess. And I turned him around and I swatted him on the butt. And unfortunately, he, I hit him so hard that he fell and he fell face first. Luckily he didn't get hurt. He fell on really cushy carpeting. That's no excuse. But immediately when I did it, I was like, oh my God, what did I just do? And I went to go pick him up and he was face down. He rolled over and he saw me coming and he really just closed his eyes, put his hands up like, please don't hurt me.

Oh man.

And that absolutely killed me because like in that moment I saw this little boy who was terrified of me, but I also saw me because like my entire childhood was filled with guys beating the snot out of me. And I remember being that terrified kid, please don't hurt me. And then I saw him and that was the night that I started this thing. I was like, there's got to be a better way.

Hmm. No, thanks for sharing that. And yeah, I can imagine the— yeah, just that brings you back to those days where you were getting hurt. And yeah, it's— I appreciate you sharing that. So, when you started The Dad Edge, what was the original name? It was—

The Good Dad Project.

The Good Dad Project, right. Now, it's The Dad Edge. What was your main goal when you started it? Like, what did you hope to accomplish?

Just to help myself.

To help yourself, right? Yeah.

Yeah. I was like, you know, I, I got a degree in, you know, Bachelor of Science, so I love to learn and I love to learn tactical things that are backed by like data and that kind of thing. And at the time there, there wasn't really a whole lot of resources out there for dads. Like they were very sparse. There was tons out there. Like I, I would search, there was tons for wives and podcasting wasn't really a big thing back then. So I just started like reading books. There was a couple of podcasts, parenting podcasts I would listen to. There's a couple of marriage things that I would dig into. I'd read marriage books like The Love Languages, Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus, like those books back then. And I just started learning and just implementing things that I was learning, and then I'd post them on that page. And that was really the start. And then after like a year of posting on that page, like I said, social media in 2012 wasn't really what it is now. And, but it grew to like 100,000 followers and I kept Scratching my head. I was like, why are these people following me? Like, I'm such a moron. Then I got asked to speak, and I'll never forget the very first time I was ever asked to speak. It was this woman who called me from this local church who was in charge of this mom's group, and she said, hey, we follow your page, a bunch of us do, and we want you to come out and speak. And this was like a year later. I was like, speak on what? And she's like, on how to be a good dad. I was like, I laughed at her. I was like, you got the wrong guy. I'm not. Like, and she's like, no, that's actually what we love about what you write and what you post is that it's so authentic. You're— she's like, oh my God, you're like so self-deprecating sometimes, but it's very vulnerable. And, uh, we just want you to come in and share just a few things that you learned. I was like, okay, well, how many moms are we talking about? Like 25, like 30? Because the church I was at, the moms groups were small. She's like, oh, we're the biggest in St. Louis where you have 400. I was like, wait, 400?

Wow.

I was like, I'm going to be talking in front of 400 women. She was like, yeah, don't worry, you'll be great. And I'm like, oh my gosh, what am I signing up for here? And then I spoke, that turned into other speaking events. And I kept being asked to speak over and over again. I would just share these stories. Really, it wasn't like a guru, like pointing out parenting advice. It was just stories and what I was learning. And then in 2013, late, I started the blog. And then 2015, I got tired of writing and I just started the podcast. And Had 10 good ideas for shows. And after that, I was on God's Good Humor, and that was almost 12 years ago. I'm still podcasting.

Wow. So, you know, well, congratulations, because I know it is a— it's humbling and it can be a lot of work. So, so congrats on that milestone for sure. You said earlier about, you know, talking about the amount of training that it takes to be a police officer, a fireman, a surgeon, Navy SEAL. And we don't get that as a dad or a husband. So what if you had to design a curriculum or a training program for dads and husbands? What would be the 4 corners of it or what would you put in there?

Yeah. So we have developed that. So I call it the Brave Man System. Everything, and it's called the Brave Man Code. And each one of those letters stand for something that's important and meaningful to a man's life. So the B in BRAVE is for bond. That's, you know, leading in your marriage, that's creating psychological safety, that's having deeper conversations, that's creating more intimacy, that's working together as a team. Like, if you look at marriage, right, just alone, like underneath all of these acronyms, there are several different things. So marriage, you know, you've got 4 pillars to a great marriage. One is your own individual care, right? So she takes care of herself. I take care of me. And then there's partnership. Partnership is more of the business side of marriage. You can't neglect that stuff. But unfortunately, that's where a lot of people get stuck. They just get stuck in the logistics, the chores, the roles, the bills, the kids' activities, all that. That's all we talk about. The next pillar is friendship. Like, how do we cultivate a great friendship with our wives, right? Like, how do we make that relationship like our ride or die, right? And the last pillar is the intimate, the physical part, emotional connection, the thing that No one else, no other relationship in our life gets access to that kind of thing. Like, that's for us, but that's marriage. The R is for raise. Raise is we, we, we lead strong, we lead and create and raise strong kids through, through just— there are so many different things under raise, right? Connection. Without connection, we don't have any influence. And a lot of guys are like, well, how do I connect? And there are ways that you can connect, right? There are ways you can create psychological safety. One of the things that we teach, you know, part of our curriculum is like, You know, being a dad is a marathon, not a sprint. So like one of the goals that we have for every single one of our guys is you become your kid's 3 AM call. Like if you've done that, what I've noticed is if you've created so much safety where you— and by the way, safety is not the absence of discipline and consequences. There's a dichotomy there. But if you can create that type of relationship where they are that connected to you, where you are their 3 AM friend, man, you've done a really good job. So That's R. A is for Amplify. This is money management and money mastery. 50% of the divorces are actually caused by financial misalignment, financial mis-money management, different money personalities, but finances can wreak havoc on relationships. So we teach that too. Vitality, that's the V. That is the things you do to The things you put in your body. So optimal nutrition. If we're eating a bunch of high processed foods, drinking a ton of beer, smoking a lot of weed, that's actually, obviously it's not going to be good for us. You know, if we're numbing and that kind of thing for our vitality, it's harder for us to show up. I don't, I'm not saying you need a 6-pack to be a father, but taking good care of yourself is critical. Right. And there's another element with vitality and that's what do you put in your mind? So one of the things that we're really vigilant about is we are the guardian of our eyes. So like, you can go on social media right now and there's so much polarized material. There's so much division. You know, you can spend 10 minutes on social media and be completely stressed out and overwhelmed because the output of those 2 things is energy. So what energy am I bringing to myself and what energy am I bringing to my kids? This last one, this next one really surprises people, and the E actually stands for enjoy. guys are like, wow, you're gonna hold me accountable to create joy in my life? And we're like, yes. And why? Well, because joy is a lot like not having, not carrying cash anymore, right? Just carrying credit cards. So if you're at the fair and your kid needs $5 and you're like, son, I don't carry cash. So if you don't have $5, you don't have $5 to give them. And joy is the exact same thing. Yeah. Men are white-knuckling life, right? And we're just, we're just, absolutely just decimating ourselves and we don't have any joy. So one of the things that's really important to a man is that you find some sort of peace and joy in your life. But what a lot of guys don't understand is you kind of have to go chase that. It's not going to necessarily come to you. You actually have to go out and chase that. The man part in Brave Man is M is for movement. So move your body in some way, shape, or form every single day. It can be a 20-minute walk. It can be a jiu-jitsu session. It could be weight training, CrossFit, whatever, but move your body. A is for action. Uh, a lot of guys get tripped— a lot of people, not just guys, get really tripped up on this whole notion of motivation. I don't feel like doing the thing, so I'm just not going to go do it.

Right.

Our curriculum is you take relentless action despite your feelings, because it's actually not motive. We're motivated to do some things like we're motivated to have sex, we're motivated to eat, But making that tough phone call or having that tough conversation with your wife or your kid or going to the gym, like it's actually action that sparks the motivation. So it's actually like, I need to do this and then I know I'll probably be more motivated to do it. And then the last one is network. Men need a network, right? We really need a network without that. You know, again, 70% of men report feeling lonely. Over 80% of men don't have a 3:00 AM friend. We have like what Steven Mansfield talks about in his book, The Mansfield Book of Manly Men, is that men have these rusty relationships, which is like they're very surface level. Every, every answer to every question can be answered with 3 words: good, fine, or busy, right? And but we're a part of each other's life, but we don't have that depth as men. We really lose that over time. So like, we are the average of the 5 people that we surround ourselves with. And if we're surrounding ourselves with guys who are lackluster in a lot of these different things, well, that's probably going to be our life too. So like we always say, if you're the smartest guy in the room, you need to find a new room. If you're the fittest guy in the room, you need to find a new room, right? If you're— if you, if you have the best marriage in the room, you're probably going to need to find another room.

Yeah, I was actually taking notes on those, and, you know, a lot of the things you talked about in relation to just making you a better dad and a husband, they just make you a better person and human, which, which follows along. Right. So, you know, the vitality, the movement, the joy. Yeah. Those are all things that, yeah, I work, work with my students, my entrepreneurship students on those. Like, yeah, if you're eating ultra-processed foods, you're just not gonna perform well because that's, that's your fuel, you know? And my personal belief is that we are here to experience joy. Right. So, so I think that's, that's worth highlighting as well. And then your last, your last one about network. Totally buy into that. You know, I think my, my network of close male friends has been, been probably one of the most profound things that's, you know, that's been part of my life. So, yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah. So, yeah. So, as it relates to you, where, where do you find that you need to pay most of the attention? Like, where, like, maybe where's your soft spot or your weak spot, or where do you have to consolidate your efforts?

That's a great question. Shockingly, my weak spot is parenting, which is probably why I continue to do this podcast, you know, and I continue to learn. One of the greatest things about podcasting, and you know this, is that you become a student, right? I mean, which is like every time I have a guest on the show, I always look at it as I get to learn. Like I get to learn about this person's expertise and it's been great. It's like having a front row seat in the in the college classroom and you're the one who gets to ask all the questions. Right. And the cool thing about podcasting is if you have an audience that obviously likes your content or needs your content, they get to learn right along with you. So parenting is still a tough one for me. I mean, I think it's probably because every season is a bit different. 4 boys, that's a lot of energy. That I have to keep up with. But I also have a great relationship with my kids. But I would say it's one of the harder ones because like, I know how to be married, thank God, because, and I didn't used to. So like, I really prioritize my marriage tremendously. And I know my wife is one single individual, but with my boys, I have to go at them or connect with them each one is totally different.

Yeah.

So it's like I have— it's almost like each one is their own little Rubik's Cube, and I have to know what the solution is to get all those colors to match. And I can't, you know, go at my 20-year-old the same way I go at my 18-year-old, because they're actually— even though they're really close in age, they are totally different human beings.

Yeah.

And my 18-year-old is different than my 12-year-old, and my 12-year-old is completely different than my 10-year-old, and vice versa. So it's like I have to like There's, there's a lot of dynamics at play when it comes to that. So I'm always trying to learn that. Plus, that is the season I think that is changing the most. So like a year ago, 2 years ago, I didn't have adult kids. Now I do. That is a weird one for me. Like, now I'm learning that.

It's different.

It's totally different. Like, whoa. Um, but with marriage, what I'm about to say will probably trigger some people in your audience because anytime I talk about this, it's, it's met with a lot of love, but it's also met with a lot of hate. And I, my kids know this as well. I'm married to your mom first, and then I'm your dad. So, you know, I chose— Dwayne Knowles said this quote. I didn't say this quote, but he was talking to one of his kids when he was disciplining one of his kids because one of his kids disrespected his mom. And he's like, look, I chose her. I didn't choose you. I love you, love you more than anything, but I chose her and I will always choose her. I didn't choose you. And I was like, man, that's harsh. But it's also, there's some truth to that.

Yeah.

So,

yeah,

being, I always tell people you need to be married first and a parent second. Now that's not to say that your kids aren't a priority. Oh my gosh. They're like a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of priority.

Like, like you can even order it. Right. But I hear what you're saying. Yeah.

Yeah. But, but here's the thing about marriage. When you, when you take you know, 2/3 of couples that stay together are in roommate syndrome or completely disconnected. Your kids have a front row seat to that relationship for like 18 years, whether you guys stay together or not and how you're operating.

Yeah.

So I really, you know, winning in your marriage is really twofold. Number one, I get to win in my marriage, which is great. But number two, my boys get to see what a good example looks like to truly love a woman. They also get to see the mistakes I make. Which then I can go have conversations like, oh, Dad really messed that one up. Did you see that? Like, Dad really messed that one up with your mom. Like, whoa. Okay. So here's the thing. Don't do that. Right. Instead, do this. So it's like, you can always, it's really twofold. You can teach them what to do, but then you, when you make mistakes, you can also show, show them and share with them how you would've done it different.

Yeah.

But, um, my wife has the exact same view. She's like, it is my job. It is my job to show you young men, you boys, what it really looks like to love, respect, and appreciate a man. Because my wife will say it, she's like, when these teenage girls come around, they come knocking on our door. I want to set the standard so high for what a good relationship looks like that you will not settle for something less. And I love that about her, you know, and I think we both share in that. And here's the good thing too, is this, and I'll be quiet after this. But like my 2 older boys have both been in long-term relationships. My 18-year-old has been with the same girl for 5 years. mind-blowing to me. My oldest son has been together with this, with the same girl for 2 years, and they're insanely mature, healthy relationships. I'm completely blown away. I always tell them, like, I did not have these relationships when I was your age. They were ridiculous. So like, my hope is, is that they're seeing these things, they've learned these things, then they're putting that into their relationships now.

Well, it sounds like they are. And I agree that that is one of the most important examples you could set is showing them You know, how you treat somebody, how you're treated, and what a positive relationship looks like. What's interesting to me about this conversation is, you know, we're talking about it in, you know, through the lens of being a father, being a husband. But it's really important for people who are in their own business, you know, entrepreneurs who tend to put everything into the business because they think that's the way they're providing for their family or that's the way they're showing love or that's their role, right? But what I'm hearing through this is that maybe that's true, but at the end of the day, the business might come or go, it might fail, it might succeed, but you're still going to have your family. So I'd love your thoughts on, you know, how somebody who's in the thick of it, just in the chaos of growing a new venture, what are some of the suggestions you have in order to get them to be able to balance that and maybe even recognize that, hey, my primary role isn't really for the business, although that is super important. My primary role is as a dad and as a husband.

That's a great question. So I'm an entrepreneur. You are. We both work with entrepreneurs. We have something, we have a community called the Dad Edge Business Boardroom Brotherhood. We created that 8 years ago specifically for entrepreneur dads because, you know, what's the point of building an empire if your home life is a house of cards. You know, men, men who are entrepreneurs have the best of intentions to build an empire to provide for their family. While usually all the while, they're the ones who are starving the most. I have a story that I think will really hit this home. I have this client of mine, and I'm going to protect his name. I'll call him Mike. But, you know, for our, for our brotherhood, we, we have men apply because we want to get to know who they are, why it's meaningful for them to come and do life with us, and get a little information about them. And I'll never forget, this guy actually scheduled a call with me. And I'll never, I will never forget this because it actually, like, he cried on the call and it made me cry.

Wow.

Because I couldn't, it was, it was so emotional and it was yet so simple. So this guy pops up on the screen. He's in his early 40s, looks really healthy. Uh, in the background, he's got like all these accolades. dressed really nice. He's got these crazy big blue eyes. Like, like we always joked with him. We're like, we always joked with him like that, man, no wonder your wife fell for you. Like the eyes are hypnotizing. But, but so he pops up on the screen and we're on Zoom. And I said, I said, hey, Mike, it's nice to meet you. He's like, it's nice to meet you. And he looked like he was just carrying something really heavy. And I was like, well, it's, you know, great to meet you. Why are we here? And he was like, I need to join your group. And I'm like, okay. I was like, well, tell me more. What's going on? And he dropped something on me that blew my freaking mind, man. So he was in this— again, I'm going to protect the industry because I don't want— some people know him, but like he was in an industry in the dog food industry. And he's like, he looked at me and he goes, I just sold my company for $42.5 million. And I was like, My heart just sank. I was like, wow. I was like, that's amazing. And he just said it so emotionally, like almost like he was dreading it. And I was like, that's amazing, man. Congratulations. Like, so why are we talking? And he just put his head down and he just stopped. And I was like, oh my gosh, I think he's crying. And he looked up at me with tears in his eyes and he goes, I went home and I told my wife the good news. And he had 3 boys, a 12-year-old, a 9-year-old, and a 7-year-old. And he's like, I told my wife the good news and I thought she was gonna be over the moon ecstatic. He's like, do you know what she told me? I was like, no, what? And he goes, she just looked at me stone cold and said, does this mean that you can finally have donuts with dad at the kids' school? And he's like, Larry, my heart freaking broke, man. Because what I realized in that moment, I was killing myself building this business, trying to make it a saleable business, which I did. I have more money. I have generational wealth now, but I do not have my family. I don't. And I could lose it. And dude, this guy broke, man. And I was like, yeah, man, we can, we can help you get that together. And he became one of our most successful clients. He literally just came in, just ate up everything that we taught, all the curriculum that we teach, implemented it. And man, that guy turned his life around. He's still one of my very closest friends. But, you know, just, I think that story probably encapsulates that entrepreneur trap that a lot of us fall into. And luckily he caught it in time.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, you said something earlier, you're like, what's the point of building wealth only to have your home be a house of cards. And I say the same thing about life and health, right? What's the point of creating wealth over the course of a lifetime if you can't enjoy it in your final decade because you're too sick managing chronic illness that you could have prevented had you only taken the time to do it earlier? And it's very similar to what you just talked about. Yeah. So, that's a really good story. So, I think the point of that is, yeah, you've got to take care of business at home. So we talked about Brave Man. Tell us about FORGE. Is that another acronym?

FORGE?

Yeah.

So FORGE is, uh, that, that's an event.

An event. Okay. I thought for some reason I was thinking it was an acronym. Okay. Yeah.

Tell us about it. No, that's, that's a, that's an event that we always do. If you go to themensforge.com, we're, we're hosting the next one in the end of April of 2027. Uh, but that is, that's a great event for men. Um, It's a combination of speakers, but it's also a combination of play. I've been running events for almost 10 years. I've been doing— this will be my third one. And but it's such a cool event because we do it on this property that's just out of St. Louis, and this property is absolutely amazing. And so like we have speakers, but we also play like home run derby. We play pickleball, we play bags, we do tug-of-war, we do flag football, we do obstacle courses, and we do firearms. Uh, this year what we're doing next year is we're doing medic training. So like, we're actually gonna be training guys on like, if you have an emergency, if somebody's choking or somebody's doing this or doing that, like, this is how you— so we're actually bringing paramedics in to do medic training. So it's like this really cool, um, event. It's 3 days where it's just this beautiful combination of, of, uh, education, but we all get to horse around like we're kids again, which is fun.

Yeah. Yeah. What are the dates of that event?

April 22nd through the 25th in 2027. And like I said, if you go to themensforge.com, everything's included in that price. All you have to do is get there. Your lodging is already taken care of. The food's already taken care of. It's a great, amazing property. We hosted at this place called Eagle Sky.

It does sound like a lot of fun. Yeah. So if a dad listening could do just one thing today to start becoming the man he could become, he knows he should become, or wants to become, what should that be?

I think a lot of it just has to do with it. I think when I, when I say this to men, I think it gives them just a lot of freedom, you know, to think differently about this. You know, think of your job and what you do for a living. I remember when I was in med device sales, it was a 90-day training. Before they ever let us into an OR with a surgeon. They even told us after 90 days, they're like, now you're dangerous. You're not even good yet. Now you're dangerous. Right? But think about anything that you do. You know, you, you've been trained to do it. You know, even if you are a golfer, like guys seem to love golfing, like chances are you've learned how to swing a club, right? Fatherhood and marriage is the exact Same thing. And one other thing that I'll share is that if you came from a lackluster background like I did, like one of the things that was my deepest desire, and I think I can speak for most men who didn't come from a good childhood, is that I am not going to do these things. So I have a laundry list of things that I know I'm not going to do. But here's the trap with that one that I found really, really quick. Number one, what we focus on grows and what we focus on expands. So if you're focusing on the things you're not, sometimes you'll become those things. But here's the other trap. I just bought a brand new smoker a couple years ago from Lowe's, came home as a pit boss, and I open up the box, unbox it, pieces everywhere. The instruction manual for anything that we ever put together doesn't ever say, here's 100 ways not to put this together, but here's all the parts. Best of luck. But that's what fatherhood and marriage can feel like if you come from those backgrounds. So here's the good news. We now live in, in a, in an era that we didn't even live in 15 years ago. Like there are so many resources now. There's your community. There's my community. You can be in your, you could be sitting on your couch in your living room and be on Zoom calls with other men. You can take courses online. There's a plethora of podcasts out there. The good news is, is that you can learn. The last thing I'll say is this, be careful about what we call being the content zombie. The content zombie is the guy that will absorb YouTube videos and podcasts and Audiobooks and so much information, information. And then I've seen this over the past 14 years where guys will fall into this trap and they're like, I'm consuming all this content, nothing's changing. And that's the reason nothing changes is because, and I know that this is kind of a nasty word for people, accountability.

Right.

Accountability and what we call experiential learning. So when you're listening to a podcast, you might retain 10% of it. And you know this as well as I do, because we've run communities. If you're in an experiential learning environment where you're having conversations, your retention rate goes up to 70%. And then if you have a man or somebody in your life that is like, hey man, last week you said you were taking your wife out on a date on Friday. Did you do it? And then when you have a man in your life that cares that much about you, that holds you to that commitment, You're going to go out and you're going to execute it. Like, last thing I'll say is this: the American Society of Training and Development did a study on accountability. What they found was, is if somebody has an idea to do something, just an idea, like let's just say it's January 1st and I have an idea I'm going to get healthier, they have a 10% success rate. If they decide, they have the idea and they decide, I'm going to do this, then they have a 25%. If they get to the how, okay, I have an idea, I'm going to decide, here's how I'm going to do it. Now they have a 40%, um, success rate. So still 40%. If they decide when they're going to do it, it goes up to 50%, and that's where things start to fall off. So think about all those elements: an idea, decide, the how, and the when. This is what they found about accountability. If you have a standing accountability appointment, whether it's a community in your meeting or like an accountability partner in some way, shape, or form, your success rate goes up 95%. That's the power of accountability. So think about like at the best day of your life with no accountability, you've got a 50/50 shot,

right?

But if you have accountability, 95%.

Yeah, I think I've definitely experienced that in my life for sure. Yeah. Well, Larry, this was a Really great conversation. I appreciate you doing this. I appreciate you sharing your own personal story and just breaking down the things you're doing for men out there. If people are interested in learning more about you and your work, where do they find you?

Everything is at The Dad Edge, thededge.com, Dad Edge on Instagram, The Dad Edge on anywhere you download a podcast, our podcast will be there. But yeah, if there's anything A couple of free resources that your audience can take advantage of is if you go to thedadedge.com/25questions, those are what I call 25 intimate conversation starters. Not trying to sell you a thing on that. Like it's just a PDF you can download and start asking your wife just really cool questions that are outside like running family LLC. So you got 25 questions there. If you want to have better conversations with your kids, I've got a PDF called Questions for the Car. You can go to thedadedge.com/kidquestions for that, and it's got it divided up into age ranges. So I've got 25 questions for 5 to 8, 25 questions for 9 to 12, and then those pesky teenagers, you know, that don't want to talk to you. I've got 25 questions for you there. So if you want to have better and deeper relationships, it actually starts with your questions. But those are some free gifts that your audience can take advantage of.

Amazing. Larry, thank you so much.

Thank you.

What comes up

• •Why Larry calls “meeting the man you could have become” the definition of hell, and what he means by “the drift”.
• •How a life and marriage can be comfortable and uncomfortable at the same time.
• •What Larry cites on “roommate syndrome” in marriage and why he wants to disrupt the idea that it’s normal.
• •How Larry met his biological father at age 12 through a chance encounter at a rec center, and the unexpected coffee-shop reunion that followed in 2005.
• •The hardest night of his parenting life in 2012, and the question that led him to start The Good Dad Project.
• •How a Facebook page grew to 100,000 followers, led to his first speaking invitation, and became a blog (2013) and a podcast (2015).
• •The Brave Man Code: Bond, Raise, Amplify, Vitality, Enjoy, Movement, Action, and Network.
• •The four pillars of a great marriage: Individual care, partnership, friendship, and intimacy.
• •Why the goal is to become your kids’ 3 a.m. call, and why safety isn’t the absence of discipline.
• •Why Larry teaches “married first, parent second,” and what he means by it (his view, and one he says draws strong reactions).
• •The entrepreneur trap: The $42.5 million exit, the donuts-with-Dad moment, and how the client turned it around.
• •Why Larry built the Dad Edge Business Boardroom Brotherhood for entrepreneur dads.
• •What to expect at The Men’s Forge, a three-day event near St. Louis (April 22–25, 2027).
• •The “content zombie” trap, and why experiential learning and a standing accountability appointment change outcomes.
• •One thing to do today: Stop trying to figure out marriage and fatherhood alone, and treat them as skills you can learn.