The Power of Doing Business Outside with Bart Foster

with Bart Foster

Jan 24, 2025 · 00:20:22

Welcome to The Total Entrepreneur Mind, Body, Spirit, where we turn cutting-edge science into practical strategies for entrepreneurs. I'm your host, Dr. John Torrance, entrepreneur, Inc. 5000 honoree, and professor of entrepreneurial practice at Syracuse University's Whitman School of Management. Each episode, we dive into mental, physical, and spiritual health with expert guests offering actionable insights to help you thrive and perform at your highest level. Let's get started. Today's guest is Bart Foster, who is the founder and CEO of Business Outside, a facilitation and training company focused on engaging, inspiring, and empowering individuals and teams to get outside in nature and outside their comfort zones. Bart is an entrepreneur and seasoned global executive who began his career at Kellogg's and Novartis. After climbing the corporate ladder and building a successful healthcare startup, Bart found his true calling as an advisor, speaker, and coach to executives throughout the world. He lives in Boulder, Colorado with his wife and 2 kids. And most mornings he can be found hiking the peaks above town, usually with someone in tow discussing business. Bart is also the author of Business Outside, which reveals a science-inspired philosophy that reimagines corporate culture by bringing business outdoors, allowing for increased creativity, meaningful connections, and psychological restoration. Bart, good morning and welcome. Great to see you.

Hey, man. Yeah, good to be here.

Hey, so I wanted to first talk about your book, Business Outside. So in Business Outside, you talk about the power of nature for renewal and empowerment. So how can something like spending time outdoors enhance leadership skills and even mental clarity for entrepreneurs?

Yeah, it's interesting. I, you know, I didn't really intend to write a book and it was walking on the trails behind my house and I would have these really meaningful kind of deep conversations with people. And I would tell stories about my own journey and about how I discovered, you know, my own path forward. And people kept saying, you gotta write this down. You gotta write these things down. And it was out on the trails that I, you know, I kind of realized, and it was, it was shortly after I moved to Boulder that I was trying to network and trying to meet, you know, different people. And this one woman, she said, I don't do coffee or lunch. 'Cause that's what I was trying to do, set up coffee and lunch meetings.

Mm-hmm.

And she said, I don't do coffee or lunch. She said, meet me at the trailhead. gonna go for a walk. And something special happened that day because I was more authentic and more vulnerable and more focused. And I think this gets to one of your questions is I realize when I'm outside, I am calmer. Yeah. I have more ideas. I'm more authentic. I'm more vulnerable. I'm, I'm walking shoulder to shoulder with someone. Yeah, that was kind of the genesis. So business outside is not just outside in nature, it's outside of your comfort zone. It's outside of corporate norms. It's doing things a little differently. So The book was Business Outside, but it's Discover Your Path Forward is kind of the, the byline. So it's how to live a more intentional life.

Yeah, no, that's cool. I mean, I think we all kind of get it that when we're outside we just feel better. But to make that connection with, yeah, vulnerability, leadership skills. Yeah, I think that's pretty insightful. So you had a successful corporate career, you had a healthcare startup. So maybe tell us a little bit about your healthcare startup and then that leap to just doing business outside.

Yeah, I had a healthcare startup based in Atlanta and we put health kiosks into places like Walmart and Safeway and Publix and things that would screen. Initially it was your vision and then it morphed into a health and wellness station that you've probably seen the blood pressure machines like in some of those drugstores. Yeah, that was our company. And I got a call I waited for, for 4 years in the summer of 2012 and it was from Walmart and they said, your pilots exceeded our expectations. How soon can you be in 4,000 stores? And it really just took off and it kind of changed my life. And we raised a bunch of money and, you know, hired a bunch of people and we were scaling that summer really fast. And then fast forward 2 years and my chairman asked me to go to breakfast one morning and he said, how big do you want this company to get? And I shared a number and he said, you know, every once in a while I see a company that has all the makings of going public. And this is one of those times. And he said, you know, we'll have to make a few changes. And I wasn't picking up what he was laying down. And he said, you know, I would even be CEO for a while. And I essentially, I got forced out of the company I founded and it was really hard for a few months. And I, you know, for me it was so much of my personal identity because I founded the company, you know, and without the CEO title, like, who am I? So Had to do a lot of soul searching and really understand. And I was in a YPO forum, you know, they helped me understand like, look, you're still the same guy, go do something else. And I did 2 exercises that were really impactful for me. I think one is understanding my personal values and coming up with a personal value statement. And for me, that became kind of my north star. And then also looking at my zone of genius, what am I great at and what do I love? I realized that if I could be in my zone of genius and aligned with my values, I was going to be the happiest and healthiest, most productive. But it wasn't easy. But that's put me on a path and that's how we ended up getting to Boulder, Colorado. That's where I live now. Yeah, that was over 10 years ago.

Yeah. Wow. Actually, that's something I talk about in my classes a lot is that entrepreneur's dilemma, right? Where you, you found the company, And then at some point maybe it exceeds your capacity to manage it, but it doesn't sound like that's what it, like you still felt like you should or could be there. It sounded like it was your shareholders that said, hey, you know, maybe we're going to take this in a different direction. Do you mind unpacking that a little bit? Because I think that's a super interesting point in time.

Yeah, I think I was actually ready to go probably 2 years before. I had a conversation with one of the younger board members. I just kind of confided in him and I was like, hey, you know, I'm thinking maybe I can move on and blah, blah, blah. He wasn't picking up what I was laying down. And he said, no, no, you're the guy, you need to stick it out. And like, and I think had he been a little bit more experienced and picked up what I was laying down, we could have moved me to a different role and maybe been chairman and brought in a president, but that didn't happen. And instead I put my head down and I had these visions of the closing dinner and handing out, you know, the checks to all my early shareholders. And I just thought, you know, I'll have to, you know, grind it out. But I learned, you know, there's all kinds of different types of CEOs.

Yeah.

And I happen to be a sales CEO and I was really, really good at it. Well, the business shifted and it turned into more operations and logistics and finance. When we have 4,000 kiosks, they're getting used 4 million times a month. It's a lot to manage and that, that wasn't me. So it wasn't really the shareholders. They wanted me to stay in place and it wasn't even the board. the board was happy for me to be the CEO. It was the chairman who had different plans. And, you know, I think it could have been done a little, maybe a little bit different way, but it is what it is. And in hindsight, it was the best thing that ever happened to me because it was an opportunity for me to do something that's really, really aligned with what I'm great at and what I love. And now I just, you know, the last 5 years I've been, you know, really in the flow. And it's because I'm aligned with my values and my zone of genius. Yeah.

Isn't that often the way, right? Sometimes it seems like it's the worst thing that could have happened to you, and then it turns out being a blessing in the end.

Yeah.

Big time.

Yeah.

I still want to talk about that a little bit more because it seems like that period of time could result in a lot of stress, mental stress, physical stress, that sort of thing. Did you experience that and how did you deal with it?

Yeah, it was probably the worst. It was probably the first, like, 3 or 4 months. Like once I kind of found out the news and then that whole progression and trying to navigate that exit and the whole thing, it was really hard. And prior to that was investors and running outta cash and, you know, all the things that happen as an entrepreneur. I learned a couple things that helped me get through some of those periods. I think one is exercise was super helpful. I remember some really early morning swim sessions, 4 or 5 in the morning, and there was one guy that happened to be there and We kind of got to be friends and I would share with him these things that I normally wouldn't talk to anybody else about, you know, hydration, sleep, as best I could. But, you know, I didn't know about say meditation or cold exposure or saunas or anything like that. That was 10 years ago. That was, you know, not really the trends that we have now and things that I've been exposed to over the last 3 or 4 years. But yeah, to get through it, it was really Exercise, hydration, and then gratitude. Just being thankful. I remember when I first got that news and I think I had a mentor, he said, you know, take out a piece of paper, write down all the things you've accomplished in your whole life. Right? And he said, just brag to yourself. You're not going to share with anybody, but just write it all down. And it just helped me realize like I really had achieved a lot and it's really my story to tell. And over time that became really, really important because, you know, there's different stories. You, you know, the story that I tell now is I took an idea from a napkin to, you know, $50 million success story impacting hundreds of millions of people that was in 4,000 locations. I, you know, we did that.

Yeah.

You know, some people tell an old story and sometimes we just need to reframe it because it's all in our head.

It is all in our head, right? We suffer more in, in our heads than we do in reality, they say, right? So you talked a lot about cold exposure, meditation, things like that. Is there one particular thing you apply or practice more, or is it just more of, yeah, you use a whole menu of practices? Like what, what's your go-to? What's your favorite?

I did a cold plunge and sauna this morning with a good friend in Atlanta. I'm on a road trip with my wife and we happen to be coming through Atlanta and there's a guy that I, have collaborated with and have a lot of respect for. His name's Chris Tough and Chris recently got sauna and a cold plunge and we went over there and we did business outside and we did a session. You know, it's a lot faster than playing a round of golf and we got a lot done. Yeah. And we were sitting there and, you know, you're, you're just talking, we talked business and he helped me think through, you know, quite a few things. It was great. Yeah.

And I, I like cold exposure and cold plunges too. I do that usually every morning after I surf when I'm in Costa Rica. It's one of my, One of the things that I love. Yeah, it's amazing.

And I think breathwork is the other that I've gotten turned on to about 8 years ago and it started exploring that and just the power of breath. There's so many different ways we can breathe. We can breathe through our nose, through our mouth. We can breathe really shallow, really deep. And, you know, for most people we breathe way too much and to take really deep slow breaths, for me it's a form of meditation. So in the mornings I'll often do upregulated breathing sometimes with a mantra and it's not very long, but it's, it's really just to set me up for the day. And at night, if I know that I might have trouble clearing my, my mind and sleeping, I'll do downregulated, which is much slower. It's through your nose.

Yeah.

And it's just a way to really calm yourself and calm your heart rate, clear your head. And I find that I, when I do that, I sleep A lot better.

Yeah, no doubt. I do too. Are you familiar with HeartMath, the HeartMath Institute? They study the, what they call heart-brain coherence. It's basically, you know, our hearts have an electrical field that extend out about 3 meters or so.

Mm-hmm.

So I've been working with them, just kind of, you know, working on, you know, understanding the principles, actually becoming a trainer for it. But yeah, a lot of it's just about breath, right? A nice deep rhythmic breath, heart-centered, and you can actually extend your heart field out to the people that are in the room with you. It's, it's really quite amazing, but it all starts with the breath. You can't get into that heart-brain coherence without a breathing practice, which is cool. So tell us a little bit about a, a business outside encounter, if there is a typical one, right? I'm sure they're all a little bit different, but what does one look like?

So we specialize kind of 2.5-day leadership retreats for boards and companies, corporations. And I would say one of the cornerstone sessions that we do is called a connection hike or connection walk. It could be anywhere from 90 minutes to 3 hours. It's not about how far we go and how big the mountain we're climbing. We literally could be in the middle of a parking lot somewhere. It's about having meaningful conversations about things that matter. So as an example, you know, it's a group that sometimes they've worked together 20 years and they're like, oh yeah, we really know each other. And I'll say, hey, let's just pair up and I want you to share something you celebrated or you're proud of outside of work. Now follow me and we'll walk for 10 or 15 minutes and we'll regroup and I'll say, all right, let's brag for the other person. Let's celebrate for them. And, you know, so they'll start sharing things about their personal life and then I'll say, all right, here's another question. I'll think about like the best gift you've ever received, non-material. Pair up with somebody else. Let's walk. And we do this 4 or 5 times. And what happens is when you're moving and you're walking shoulder to shoulder, I say motion creates emotion. And if we can get beyond the superficial conversations, how are you? How's your job? Like, when's your flight out? Like, who's gonna win the Super Bowl? Like, for the most part, nobody cares about any of that.

Right.

But when you can get to the feeling and to the emotion, that's where you develop deeper connections. It starts with vulnerability and authenticity. And so the connection walk or connection hike is, it's really a pivotal point because, and we do it usually on the morning of the first or second day because it really opens people up. And what I like to say is we're not, we're not just colleagues and coworkers. We're actually mothers and fathers and caregivers. We're real people. But often we get stuck in this, you know, we're these human resources. We're not, we're not human resources. We're actually humans.

Humans first. Yeah.

Yeah. So that's a big piece of what we do. And then, you know, it depends on what the client wants, but often they, they say, hey, can you help us lead our strategic planning meeting, our annual strategic plan? What they really need is they need to build trust with each other. So we work on trust, we work on healthy conflict and giving them a framework to have difficult kind of awkward conversations similar to the clearing model that we used in YPO.

Yeah. Yeah. So what do you experience after that? So you, you do the connection walk or the connection hike. Is it palpable and can you observe the change or is it something a little more subtle that takes a while to show itself?

You can tell when you're getting to feeling an emotion. Mm-hmm. And you can tell when, when people are dropping in and they're shedding a tear or they're having real conversations. We've measured it over time where when you trust each other more, You're gonna perform better. Mm-hmm. And, you know, a lot of our work is based on Patrick Lencioni's 5 Dysfunctions of a Team.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Because the, the cornerstone or the very bottom of the base of that pyramid is trust. And if you can have trust, you can have healthy conflict. And if you can have healthy conflict, you can have accountability and then focus on results.

Yeah. So it, it seems like it's about authenticity in the connection walk and in business. And it, you know, I think like what you said earlier is really important cuz when you're making small talk, I mean, that's how you break the ice. That's how you kind of take up some time and space. So outside of a walk or a hike or even like a facilitated experience, what types of things can entrepreneurs or executives do to facilitate that kind of authenticity in everyday life?

Ask better questions. Ah, so instead of what do you do, right? Or what time did you fly in? Are you gonna go to the buffet? Like nobody cares. Right? So I have something called 4-3-2-1 and everybody should have these in their proverbial backpack. 4 stories, 3 quotes, 2 facts, and 1 question. Success, a failure, business, personal, 4 stories, 3 quotes, 3 quotes that inspire you, 2 facts, 2 facts that only you know and, you know, they just, they make you interesting. And then 1 question you can ask anyone. anyone in the world. And the question I love to ask is, you know, knowing what you know now, what would you tell yourself when you were 20? Right? You could ask a billionaire or a homeless guy on the street, same question.

Yeah.

You know, we didn't learn this stuff in school. You just kind of throw you out there and it's like, and you get into a conference, you get your little name badge and you're thrown into a room with 500 people. It's like, oh, what do you do? What company are you with? Like nobody cares. So maybe try like, what's giving you energy? Right? What's zapping your energy? What are you most excited about at this trade show?

Yeah.

What's an innovation you saw today that you're gonna bring into your own business? Like try to get to a feeling or an emotion. And then if you have these stories ready, so if somebody asks you a question, then you can, you can flip it.

Yeah. It might, might be disarming too for people, right? Because they're used to, oh, what time did you fly in? What do you do? And then all of a sudden they've got a different question or a different prompt that elicits something completely different. So. Yeah, I think that's the whole, what, what do you do should be banned.

Like, it's terrible. You don't learn anything.

Yeah.

And then it puts people, and then it, you're like trying to size the guy up. Well, like, what do you mean? What do I do?

Then, yeah, like you said, you're, you're sizing 'em up, you're defining them. It puts 'em in a box.

I'll tell you, I did learn in Boulder, Colorado, when people ask that, they really just wanna know, do you mountain bike or road bike? Yeah. Or do you ski or snowboard? Like, they don't really care what you do for work.

Right.

Yeah.

It's what, what's your activity, right? So 4 stories, you know, 3 quotes, 2— what was it?

2 facts.

2 facts. And then 1 question. 1 question. Yeah.

I'll give you one. You know, everybody's in their own movie and nobody's watching your movie.

Yeah. People think, oh, they're looking at me, they're obsessing about me, they're judging me, but nobody really cares that much.

Nobody cares.

That's amazing. So what's next for you, Bart? Like, so, you know, you're— you seem like a guy who's always got something going on, always in motion. What are you up to next?

I feel like I'm in the flow. I have all the problems I want and it feels really good. It's the first time in my life I haven't been super goal-oriented where I'm trying to hit this next level or this, you know, hire a bunch of people. And it's just, I'm feeling in the flow and trying to help and support other people. And, you know, I like to say that the wisdom's actually in the room. It's not on the stage. And often you know, we get hung up on thinking we gotta hire these big name speakers and it's really just asking questions. It's the person on your left that's going through a divorce and the guy on her right that, that just sold his company and, and realizing that we're all just the same. And the higher up we get, it's just lonely, right? So one of the, the things that I've been doing is bringing the Forum principles into corporations that you're familiar with, with YPO. And so I actually run I run 6 forum groups. We'll probably expand that. And it's really, really powerful. And personally, it's cool because I get a front row seat to, you know, 52 amazing leaders that make me better. And every month I feel like I, I become a better version of myself, whether it's a better leader, a better husband, a better father. If I can continue to do those things, because it's aligned with my values. Yeah.

Yeah. If people are interested in learning more about you and what you do, where could they find you?

businessoutside.com or bart-foster.com, either one, and they can learn more there.

All right. Well, Bart, thanks so much for spending some time with me today. I really appreciate it.

Yeah, no problem, man.

Awesome.

Thanks, John.

Thank you so much for listening to the Total Entrepreneur Mind Body Spirit podcast. If you liked what you heard or heard something interesting today, please give us a like, share a comment, or better yet, subscribe to the podcast. Thank you.