From College Dorm to $1.3M Raised: Building Resilience in Business and Life with Jack Adler

with Jack Adler

Sep 26, 2025 · 00:37:05

Today's guest is proof that age doesn't define impact. Jack Adler is the founder and CEO of Out2Win, an AI-powered athlete marketing platform that is already working with brands like Olipop, Franklin Sports, and major universities. Jack launched the company straight out of Syracuse University, raised a $1.3 million seed round, and is now leading a fast-moving team in one of the most competitive corners of the tech world. In this episode, we explore what it takes to stay focused, grounded, and mission-driven when success comes early. and fast. From mental performance to founder identity, to the future of NIL, Jack shares his lessons that every entrepreneur can use. Welcome to The Total Entrepreneur: Mind, Body, Spirit, where we turn cutting-edge science into practical strategies for entrepreneurs. I'm your host, Dr. John Torrance, Entrepreneur Inc. 5000 honoree and professor of entrepreneurial practice at Syracuse University's Whitman School of Management. Each episode, we dive into mental, physical, and spiritual health with expert guests offering actionable insights to help you thrive and perform at your highest level. Let's get started. Jack, welcome.

Thanks for having me, John.

Yeah, this one lands differently just because not only are you a successful entrepreneur but a former student. So, this is really, really cool for me.

It's just as cool for me, trust me. Yeah, well, great to see you.

So I wanted to start by talking about the, you know, the fact that you were one of the very first, if not the first, NIL agents back when NIL became a thing for college athletes. So talk to us a little bit about that and then tell me the origin story of Out to Win.

Yeah, no, I mean, like 4 years later, it feels crazy to even like walk that far back and acknowledge kind of where it all began. a lot of it led to where we are today, building an intelligence technology to power the way brands, universities, and agencies are building their athlete partnerships. But I guess, yeah, to start where it all began, sitting in your class as a junior at Syracuse, NIL legislation was passed, which allowed college athletes to get paid for the very first time. And I was in an entrepreneurship class which had athletes in it that had no idea how to navigate this brand new opportunity of NIL. So first things first, I kind of just threw myself into the fire and began helping athletes facilitate partnerships with local businesses around the Syracuse area. And I was quickly realizing what goes into these partnerships between brands and athletes and recognized the potential on a larger scale. So beyond Syracuse, began expanding to other campuses, working with brands on a more national scale to help them build campaigns across social media. And over the course of 2.5, 3 years, we were more so pivoted towards a brand marketing agency, helping businesses like Nerf, Oakley, Reebok build NIL campaigns across social media. So helping them find the right athletes for their campaigns and create the social media content that drove additional brand awareness and additional sales. Through really more or less influencer marketing content. And all of that to get to where we are now led to this realization that brands don't really have access to the data they need on an athlete to decide whether or not they're the right influencer. You can go see how many touchdowns they throw, you can go see how many goals they score, but when deciding whether or not this athlete's the right fit for a marketing campaign, there's a lot more that goes into that decision. they didn't have access to the data that goes into that decision. So this platform we built, the intelligence platform for athlete marketing, it gives a holistic overview of an athlete as a marketer. So it's how do they stack up against other athletes off the field based on their social metrics, based on the audiences they reach, and based on past brands they've worked with and how those partnerships have performed. So we launched that about a year ago and we've now been scaling that tech in the NIL ecosystem. And ideally, we'll be scaling that beyond NIL into other verticals of sports in the creator economy.

Yeah, so is it true that, you know, somebody who performs really well on the field and has incredible stat sheets may not be the best partner for a brand for some reason? Maybe because off the field, their stats and their social presence isn't quite what the brand would need?

It's true that that could be the case. And it's definitely true that at the very least, that needs to be vetted out in, you know, making a decision. I guess some of the best players on the court, on the field, don't necessarily have the most marketable presence off the court, off the field. And what I mean by that is more so just like the way that they're showing up on social media, in the general media. So, it's important just when associating yourself with an athlete and having them represent your brand to the public eye that you just have the full 360 view of like, where are they going to be showing up and how are they going to be showing up? Is this who I want to represent my brand? So of course, businesses take that stuff into consideration, but now they have the resources right in front of them to do it without needing to go scramble on Google to try and figure it all out themselves.

One of the cool things about this story with How2Win, in my opinion, is just the way you iterated and followed the market signals. And a lot of young entrepreneurs, they're kind of, maybe they're headstrong or stubborn and they think, hey, this is the idea that's going to win. And they stick with it at all costs because they think that by being faithful to the that's how they're gonna ultimately win. But you didn't do that. You kind of followed the signals and you went from, you know, being an agent trying to match athletes with specific brands to something that's ultimately much more scalable and interesting. So was that second nature to you or was that difficult or how did you navigate those pivots that ultimately led you to where you are?

It was definitely difficult. I would say that there is a part of it that was second nature, which didn't make it any less difficult, But it was kind of just this process of feeling out the market, feeling out the feedback that I was constantly receiving. And kind of like you said, just being open-minded, not being stubborn, listening to what people said and taking it, not necessarily taking everything I heard, but recognizing patterns and applying them to where I wanted to take the business. And I guess when I initially started the business, I said from the beginning, I wasn't doing this to go leverage it to get a good job for myself. I was doing it because I wanted to build a solution that was going to change the space forever. And because of that mindset, it kept me always curious to how we could improve our solution, how we could do this thing better. And I think that's really where a lot of our innovation came from. It was from this relentlessness to being better and doing doing good to the industry. So that mindset, I think, was the more like what led to the second nature of innovation and open-mindedness to pivoting.

Ultimately, that led you to where you are now. And was it $1.3 million you just raised? Is that the number?

Yeah. Yeah.

So I'm interested in that. So you're talking to investors who are probably older than you, probably more sophisticated in business and the startup ecosystem. So how do you navigate that, you know, as a younger founder, you know, in the room with, you know, with funders?

Yeah, I mean, I think the— our most recent raise was really exciting. It allows us to fuel our growth and take it to the next level. What I honestly will modestly say, what I feel more proud of was us raising a pre-seed round before we even had revenue. When we had, we raised a $250,000 pre-seed and we hadn't even launched the product yet. So that's what I feel more proud of. I can talk obviously about both or either, but just raising money was something that honestly a lot of those competitions that I competed in at Whitman really prepared me for. how to pitch the story and the vision over just the raw numbers. It's so much of it's about storytelling and in a way, vision dumping, because that's what gets people excited. That's what gets people to buy in. And that's a lot of what I was doing in the early stages of raising money. It was really just pitching the vision that I had for where this could go.

So, I mean, do you get anxious or nervous before you do this? Like, do you have a routine that you get ready for when you go into pitch?

Yeah, I definitely, I get really nervous, especially for those pitch competitions. Again, like bringing it back to Whitman and, and some of like the experience I had there. I, you know this, like I, I didn't come in first place for maybe like 4 or 5 straight competitions.

Right.

And for every single one, I would get really nervous. I get nervous around public speaking in general. And for some reason, I feel like that's when I perform my best. When the words just flow out is when I'm blacked out, not even thinking about the words I'm saying, and it just comes out naturally. That's for some reason when I tend to do my best. But in these, I guess it was a much more intimate setting in these investor pitches, so it was maybe a little less nerve-wracking. But there was more on the line.

Yeah.

So, I guess we've raised from about 15 to 20 investors now, all angels. So, we didn't raise any institutional capital. But raising angel money, I guess because of how many pitches I did, probably over 100 over the last year, it definitely started to become second nature. I wouldn't even pull up a deck anymore. I would just kind of just talk through the business, the vision, and a lot of times pull up the platform to show them the visual of what it is we've built as opposed to, you know, showing slides that explain the visual.

Yeah. So, well, I want to back up to that, the $250,000 seed raise without revenue, because that is difficult, right? That's a hard thing to do. So what do you attribute that to? Or what was that like? Or, you know, just kind of talk about that experience and, you know, just getting to that point, because I think, you know, a lot of entrepreneurs, would like to get to that point and your story could be informational and helpful.

Yeah. I mean, I felt and still feel really confident in what we're building because of 3 years being in the space, feet on the ground, experiencing the pain points firsthand. And that allowed me to go pitch this as this isn't us starting from scratch. This is us taking everything we've learned. This is us taking a book of business, and really just pivoting it into a more scalable model. So we were pre-revenue under the tech, but we were really just productizing an agency that we'd been building for 2 or 3 years. That's why, that's really why I was able to, one, raise this round of $250 grand, but also to go get off to a really fast start and raise another $1.3 million within 8 months of launching the platform.

So, now the company looks a lot different than it did a few years ago, right? So, talk to us a little bit about how that's changed, what's different now. And I'm really interested in just how you manage yourself, right? How are you kind of prioritizing your mental, physical, spiritual health? How are you making sure that you're going to be healthy enough to enjoy the fruits of your labor when you're an older guy?

Yeah. No, I mean, the company looks a lot different. right now, even just over the last few months. And I think just funny context for this part of the conversation too is I would come into your office when you were my professor at Syracuse once a week and just vent to you about the challenges that I was going through on a day-to-day of running the business while being a college student. Today, those challenges are a whole lot different. But what's so interesting that I've learned and has allowed me to cope with the challenges is Every new phase of the business brings its own new set of obstacles and there's no avoiding them. You got to face them head on. So a lot of those early days definitely prepared me for facing these new challenges that come today. I honestly, maybe they're getting bigger, maybe they're getting scarier, but they just feel a lot more achievable to overcome because I've just like, I've battled the wars through 3, almost 4 now years of building the business. That said, so many of our challenges today do just feel like they're on a bigger scale. We now have 7 full-time employees. I'm supporting people's families and careers, and there's a lot of pressure and weight that comes behind that, but also a lot of just validation behind what we're building to have the belief of those people to come buy in and become a part of this journey with me. But yeah, day to day, they're all new types of challenges. The way that I deal with them is kind of just by looking back and remembering that they're all surmountable.

Yeah. You've gotten through tough stuff before. You can do it again.

Yeah.

So, it's resilience, but it does bring it to another level when you realize you are responsible for other people's livelihoods, for sure.

It is. Yeah. And I had a team of almost 20 to 30 in college of interns more or less. It was just students that had roles that they were just doing in between classes. Now, this is full-time jobs where people are spending more than their— much more than their 9 to 5 days allocated towards just being a part of growing this business. And the culture behind that, just building in the right culture behind where we're all heading. I've taken a lot more focus into now than I ever have before because I'm realizing how important it is to building this company the right way.

Yeah. So what does that look like? What does that mean to you, building it the right way? And how do you develop culture? Because we know that that's probably one of the more powerful things you can do.

Yeah. And I honestly, I definitely learned it a lot from reading and learning about other startups, how important culture can be. And It almost didn't, like, we're building a remote startup. We're all in our own states. Like, everyone's in all different states around the country, which makes it difficult just to like, to build a really solidified culture because people can kind of be off doing their own thing and there's only so much oversight that you can have over remote workers. A lot of like the culture comes through building certain rituals. Like we have like team meetings virtually on a weekly basis that are not necessarily just like everyone just like sit down and give your updates. It's more so like almost like team bonding meetings in a way. And then on a quarterly basis, we're trying to do them more frequently. We're having in-person meetups altogether where we're just having a couple days of coworking in person. And eventually I would love to work in person and that can just be an everyday thing where we're collaborating face-to-face and It's a lot, I think, more progressive for making, I don't know, for growing the vision behind the business. But right now, it's just at this stage, it isn't worth the investment to go get an office in New York City and relocate 7 team members. So we're trying to do it in terms of build culture. We're trying to do it in the most efficient way possible.

Yeah, no, that's smart. But it does have its challenges, right? So are your teammates, are they all local to where you are? Are they spread out all over the place?

They're spread out.

Yeah.

So, I'm in Philadelphia. We have New York, Connecticut, South Carolina, Miami. It's a little all over the place.

Yeah. Well, at least you're on East Coast, right? So, time zones aren't that challenging. But yeah, building a sticky culture in a remote-first organization has to be challenging. Yeah. So, what are some of the rituals or how do you guys establish connection in that sort of modality?

Yeah, so on Fridays, at the end of each Friday, we have like a team weekly recap. And there's no real structure to it. It's kind of just like, bring a beer to the meeting if you'd like. It's like we're just going to kind of kick back and discuss the wins from the week, look forward to what's to come for the rest of the month. And it's more so, like I said, kind of a team bonding time than it is like a structured— meeting or sync. And moments like that, it just brings the team closer together as family, as friends. And I think that's super important in this too, because everyone right now is bought in on building for the company, for themselves. But if they can also be bought in on building for the others around them, it's just going to bring out an extra layer of commitment and dedication. And that's the type of bond I'm trying to build amongst the team to really build a family-like culture.

So, those are the rituals for the team and the organization. But what about for you? I mean, your job is especially demanding. You're resilient, which is great. But what are the things that you do in your day-to-day to maintain and improve that resilience?

Yeah. So what, like, one of my non-negotiables is, is working out in the morning. Like before I do anything else, I get up and, and I work out and that's either a run, that's a lift in the gym, but just like getting my, my blood flowing in the morning is my form of caffeine. I actually don't consume caffeine. I, I do, I do on some occasions when it's, you know, a long, long night, early morning.

Yeah.

to get me through the day, but I try to almost use like my endorphins as caffeine, which I went on a run this morning. Like, I'll most mornings go and get a lift in the gym. And that's just like my way to like just start the day without work, just like kind of focusing on myself more so. And creating that kind of boundary has been important in staying sane. in building the business because nearly 24/7 of my time is dedicated towards the business. From the time that I'm finished working out till I go to sleep at night, it's usually focused on how I can do certain things to build the business further. But that hour to hour and a half period in the morning is my time to focus on myself and my physical self. Mm-hmm.

So do you ever like imagine yourself 30 years from now, 40 years from now? Like what your life is like or your health or your enjoyment of, you know, the thing you created? Does that ever cross your mind or are you just kind of head down doing what you're doing?

It definitely crosses my mind, but so much of it's uncertain that I honestly try to almost avoid, like I'll try to maybe like map out what I, like what my desired outcomes look like. But the reality is so much of it will come from focusing on the day-to-day that if I take too much time to focus on looking ahead like that, I think I'll lose sight of the day-to-day too much. So I do try to really focus on putting one foot in front of the other and staying in the present time. Even in the shorter long term, like the next 2, 3, 5 years of building the business, there's so much to think about. But when I get too caught up in thinking about it, I lose sight of what's right in front of us. And it's— I've learned that it's really important to just keep sight of what's in front of you because so much of the further along future is uncertain. So by putting too much weight on what you think could or hopefully will happen, you end up I think like almost losing track in what needs to be done right in front of you.

Yeah. You know, and I think, um, you know, ensuring that you're where you want to be in 30 or 40 years does kind of depend on the things you do right now.

Right.

So focusing on what's in front of you. So, so how do you sleep? What's your, uh, what's your sleep schedule like? It sounds like it might be a little chaotic.

I try to get to bed really early. Like that's one of my biggest priorities too, is sleep because I can't really function without it. most humans can. But I'll try to be asleep by 10 PM.

Great.

And I usually don't accomplish that, but that's just like the goal that I set. And then I'll end up asleep by 11 latest. And then I wake up at 6.

Yeah.

And that's when I go work out. And then I'm sitting at the desk by 7:30, ready for the day.

Yeah, that's great to hear because, I mean, you probably know entrepreneurs and founders as well that sacrifice sleep first to get things done, right? But Yeah, no, it's good because you've probably experienced it that you're just better when you're rested. I am.

And then, so I usually don't have a first meeting until 9:00 in the morning. So that 7:30 to 9:00 window is my deep work, don't bother me window of work. And then, when things do overflow, as a lot of times they do, I'll take the 8:00 to 10:00 PM window to just get more things done and then hit the hay.

Is there anything that you're struggling to fit in or find time for in your day-to-day that you just can't because you're too busy?

I mean, so I just moved into Center City, Philadelphia. And one thing that's been a struggle is I, of course, want to explore a new city and I've done it. I moved in about a month ago and for the first couple of weeks, I was taking like a nice like hour or 2 after like the prime workday to go just explore the city. And I just like, as you put so much pressure on yourself sometimes as, you know, a founder and a CEO or like those like 1, 2 hours a day of just exploring the city, I felt like were kind of adding up in a lower level of productivity. So I certainly haven't been exploring as much.

Yeah.

Since my first couple weeks in the city and it's like, It's just always, it's a balancing act.

Yeah.

Like, I definitely, like, for example, tonight I'm going to a networking event in Philadelphia. It's called Sports Business Leaders. It's like a bunch of sports entrepreneurs across the Philly landscape. And that I've allocated as my like one night of the week to go explore Philadelphia. The last 3 nights I've been focused, I've stayed in focusing on just getting things done. So, I try to allocate like one night afternoon a week to just exploring Philadelphia.

That's great. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, you got to fit those things in, right? And we know that a major factor in healthspan and longevity is your community, the quality of your relationships, right? So, do you find time for that? Like, do you have a crew that you hang out with or at least a couple of good relationships like people you can just kind of rely on if you need to?

I'm definitely— I'm building that in Philadelphia. 'Cause I'm, you know, I'm new to the city. I have, you know, a crew from both college and high school that I'm extremely close with that I'll see a lot of times on weekends. And I definitely agree that having like a crew like that is almost, is a necessity for just like staying fulfilled in the day-to-day work. Like for me, that's a big part of my purpose too, is just like shared experience with people that I, Like, I love to share my wins with my closest friends. I love to share like the losses with my closest friends. Just like having like that support system and that crew, whether that is close friends or even family, I think is a big part for me of the process is just like keeping them close along the way.

Yeah. And doing those networking events like you were talking about, really important too, right? Because as you grow and scale your company and your problems become bigger and different, it might be harder for people who aren't in that same position to relate to, right? So just having other people who are kind of at a peer level in terms of running an organization in your stage of growth is probably really important.

Yeah. I also just enjoy the conversations, even a conversation like we're having here. Doing that, I'm usually on the other side of asking the questions because I just love learning about how other people are managing their lives, whether it is a founder, whether it is an employee elsewhere. it's cool to hear about how other people are navigating the same types of challenges. So like tonight, you know, like I'll grab a beer with a couple different entrepreneurs, founders in completely different types of like businesses, but it'll be really cool to just hear about the different ways they're navigating their own obstacles and see if there's anything that applies to the ones I'm currently navigating.

Yeah, for sure. So let's talk a little bit about Out to Win because it's, I mean, I just think it's the coolest concept. So tell us a little bit about both sides of the value proposition and kind of walk us through, you know, the, like a use case for a brand and an athlete?

Yeah, so our business is entirely B2B. So we're selling to a combination of brands who are looking to build athlete campaigns, but we're also selling more so on like the athlete side of the value proposition. We're selling to universities and talent agencies who can use the platform almost on behalf of their athletes. So brands are using the platform to discover and vet athletes based on their off-the-field marketability, but using different AI tools we've built, you can pretty much discover what we like to refer to as diamonds in the rough. So it's athletes who aren't necessarily on your radar, that you're not going to see them on the SportsCenter top 10, but they're really strong content creators and can help move the needle off the field on whether that's Instagram or TikTok through social content. So you can pretty much insert a criteria of what you're looking for in an athlete, and it'll pull up those who are the best fit for that criteria and then also rank the highest in the Out2Win score, which is our proprietary algorithm that ranks an athlete based on their off-the-field marketability strength. So that's on the brand side. We're helping them go find the right fit, make smarter decisions around who they're partnering with. And then on the university side, we're helping them pretty much benchmark their NIL program against their competitor schools. So South Carolina is one of our clients, and they can pretty much see how the South Carolina NIL program looks against Tennessee by how many brand sponsorships have been driven for their athletes, by how many total followers their athlete pool has versus Tennessee. And then they can actually have a— see a live feed of deals coming in from their athletes as they're happening.

Wow.

So it's almost like an operating system in a way for South Carolina's NIL program. So we just rolled this out over the last few months and we were already working with South Carolina, Michigan State, San Diego State, a few different schools that are kind of like our early adopters of this vertical of the platform. And we're also, because we have this ecosystem now of brands and universities using the platform, we're building ways to bridge the gap between them to allow for a more streamlined connection. So like Olipop, for example, one of the brands using our platform, they want to find the right athlete for a campaign and they can now connect directly through our platform with Michigan State to work with athletes at their school. and build partnerships knowing that they're each a part of this Out2Win ecosystem.

Cool. Do you know the athlete who's got the highest Out2Win score at the moment?

It's a dynamic score. So it's like, it's a lot of which is based on their follower growth. So I'm pulling up the platform right now on the side. So the athlete with the highest score is Cooper Flagg, who will soon have an alumni tag next to him because he's going into the draft in a couple weeks. And then right under him is Jeremiah Smith, wide receiver from Ohio State, and then Juju Watkins from USC. So there's like, so Cooper Flagg is a 96, Jeremiah Smith's a 95, and Juju's a 94. And they all have like around a million total followers on social media.

That's amazing. So now with these athletes, do you find that, I mean, they can't be generating content on their own. Do they have other people Are people helping them or what? Like what goes into making a really good social presence that's marketable for these athletes?

Yeah, I mean, those 3 athletes I just gave as an example are just superstars at their sport.

Right.

To the point where they, you know, they post anything and it's marketable.

Yeah.

And they have teams behind them that are helping them create content and they're helping them create content and, you know, build their brand. And then you like, you go down a few athletes more in our platform and the next one is this guy Caleb Hammett. who's a lacrosse player at Liberty, and then Brandon Dwyer, who's a basketball player at Florida Gulf Coast, but he hasn't played a single minute all season. Those 2 also have around a million total followers on social media. They're creating their own content. They're resonating with a fan base in a unique fashion because of that content. Those are the true hidden gems that you can find from our platform.

Yeah.

Everyone knows who Cooper Flagg is, and he's probably gonna cost an arm and a leg to partner with. But a partnership with Caleb Hammett and Brandon Dwyer is— so we have a price per post algorithm as well, which showcases how much it'll cost based on an estimate that we built. And Caleb Hammett is a much more efficient bang for your buck than Cooper Flagg is.

Sure. Yeah. So what are you worried about? I mean, every founder's got troubles and worries, right? So what are the things that either keep you up at night or just gnaw at you or what worries you?

Yeah, so our platform's very self-service. Okay, let me rephrase that. Our platform, in order for us to scale in the most efficient way, it's like we're aiming to keep it self-service. That said, a lot of brands that are just dipping their toes into this space are looking for a little more handholding and we're trying to balance as a lean team, you know, like how do we, help our users find success so that we can leverage that into more success and social proof while also keeping ourselves far away and letting the user go through the full experience so that we can kind of evaluate the platform's potential really at scale. And we've contemplated building out an agency arm to the business that has more hands-on involvement. We've contemplated just building out better tools and resources to help. That's one thing that I think in a self-service software, I've heard this from other founders in the space too, is something you always kind of battle with is this pull to go act in a more hands-on fashion. And I'm just really trying to focus on staying away from it as long as I can. And I guess like as much as I can, that's something that I would say like keeps me up at night because I'm trying to figure out ways to just more efficiently get involved without it being in a way that requires more overhead. Because that's really what it is from a scalability perspective. It's like we have, we now have about 100 clients and we have one person working customer success, but also working business development. So like we have very limited resources allocated to customer success. How can we maximize those resources that we are allocating? And of course, AI and different types of tools have allowed us to maximize it in the way that we're doing it today, but we're always going to be kind of exploring like how can we keep bringing more value to the users that are investing in our platform? Yeah.

Is there something that you wish you had known when you were just starting out that you learned along the way? Or, I mean, everybody has something, but like, is there one thing that really pops out?

Yeah. I mean, over the last year I've become a tech CEO and founder. Like, I, you know, I was more like a sports agent for 3 years prior and I kind of, when I was making the pivot, the reason I did it was because I realized the scalability that tech brings. I started off this, this conversation saying, I went into this thinking, how can I build a business that makes a massive impact? And I realized a couple years in that it was going to require technology. And I almost, I was about to say something I'm actually going to pull back on saying. I was going to say I wish that I had integrated tech from the beginning. But that said, I think that the experience I had with feet on the ground as just really a stakeholder in the space that we're now building this solution for, it's allowed me to build this product in a more informed fashion. So I'm not going to say what I was going to say anymore. What I will say is that I do wish that I had more of a technical knowledge coming into this pivot that we've made. But luckily over the last year, I've dedicated a lot of time to really ramping up my knowledge there. And I've surrounded myself with an unbelievable team that's helped me feel like I have years of experience in product and engineering. But that's been just like my biggest transition over the last year has really becoming more product and technical minded.

Any advice for startup founders from where you sit?

Well, I mean, I'm very passionate about student entrepreneurship. And I know that's something you spend a lot of your time around. I just think that there's such an opportunity as a student to go throw yourself into the fire and learn from what most likely will be failure. Like, I consider a lot of what I was doing in my like 2 years at Out2Win while I was a student as failure in that like we were struggling to kind of like get over the hump in a lot of ways. But everything that I did while building the building blocks of Out2Win, it led to where we are today because I just had the freedom to fail. I had the freedom to go out and learn from my mistakes. And I just think that, like, speaking as if I'm talking to students in college who are contemplating whether or not to go, like, take that idea they have and see what they can do with it, you just, you have nothing to lose. And now is the time to go out and do it because The second that all my friends graduated college and went and started their first day of work, they said, hey guys, we should start a business. But at that point, it's a little too late because now you have, I don't know, you have a lot more responsibility to, and you have kind of like, you have a lot more on your plate. So while you're a college student, I just think it's the best time to go out and Throw yourself into the fire.

For sure. Well, Jack, thank you for spending some time here and sharing your story, your wisdom. Really appreciate it. Thank you so much.

Thank you, John. This is great.

Thank you so much for listening to the Total Entrepreneur Mind Body Spirit Podcast. If you liked what you heard or heard something interesting today, please give us a like, share a comment, or better yet, subscribe to the podcast. Thank you.